tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post103859709297030340..comments2023-07-08T03:16:48.607-07:00Comments on Sermonwriter: Theonomy and HomosexualityUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger84125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-54388543470248651152009-05-13T14:51:00.000-07:002009-05-13T14:51:00.000-07:00Since you dared the public.. this is how I would p...Since you dared the public.. this is how I would pose my argument without being a "theonomist" in your sense of the word. <br><br>Romans 1<br>26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for <b>unnatural</b> ones.<br><br><br>Well I would have to resort to the law in order to call homosexuality a sin. Does that make me a theonomistBryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-52470822942742126452009-05-13T15:06:00.000-07:002009-05-13T15:06:00.000-07:00Well Susan thought that since I brought up animal ...Well Susan thought that since I brought up animal behavior this might leave the door open for some debate as to whether this was really "unnatural" behavior. She said dogs often will hump someone's leg. <br><br>Yeah.... that is why I dislike appealing to biology to defend myself. <br><br>I really see no reason for such pointless arguments. <br><br>What does unnatural mean in Romans Bryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-41838144403741607362009-05-13T15:39:00.000-07:002009-05-13T15:39:00.000-07:00There is one point you 'might' be overlook...There is one point you 'might' be overlooking on this. Your points are good but when we say homosexuality is "wrong", what is it that we are saying? It's a "sin" right?<br><br>We don't sin against nature, we sin against God. We sin against the Creator and not against the creation. We violate the laws of the Creator and that is why it is sin...no?Sermonwriterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01218224391894824520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-51230141119431940052009-05-14T15:51:00.000-07:002009-05-14T15:51:00.000-07:00Yeah it is sin. The order of nature reflects the m...Yeah it is sin. <br><br>The order of nature reflects the majesty of God and His law reflects his character. <br><br>Not only is it a sin, it contradicts what is naturally revealed. Even very bright scientists cannot and will not change their minds and turn to the Lord when something appears to be naturally obvious. Some of those arrogant scientists or homosexuals may be part of God's elect noBryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-32829509802333312742009-05-14T16:19:00.000-07:002009-05-14T16:19:00.000-07:00I really do think I understand your points, but I ...I really do think I understand your points, but I think you might be missing mine. I am not trying to close the doors of grace to any sinner, homosexual or otherwise. I am simply trying to accentuate the necessity of God's law to make ethical judgments. Just because a sinner may be a child of God does not negate our need to judge sin.<br><br>So once we judge sin (outside of the Church) whatSermonwriterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01218224391894824520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-74875871127707263902009-05-14T16:33:00.000-07:002009-05-14T16:33:00.000-07:00So let me get back to your concern that I sidestep...So let me get back to your concern that I sidestepped. "So once we judge sin (outside of the Church) what is to be done about it?...is kind of what you ask."<br><br>I really believe that the old and new testament both teach that the civil government is a "minister of God" and bears the sword to punish evil and to encourage righteousness. <br><br>Now how is the civil Sermonwriterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01218224391894824520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-20753234893164391992009-05-14T18:01:00.000-07:002009-05-14T18:01:00.000-07:00What does Calvin say that the government should pr...What does Calvin say that the government should protect? He says that "Blasphemy of God, Blasphemy of the Church, and destruction of man's property, or well being shall be punished by the civil magistrate" <br><br>So how can the state punish homosexuality? How can the state punish even abortion? Well it is allot easier than we think. Common law forbids homosexual practices, and Castlemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16413257174535190126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-24297164313550316892009-05-14T18:11:00.000-07:002009-05-14T18:11:00.000-07:00Deuteronomy 17:6"At the mouth of two witnesse...Deuteronomy 17:6<br>"At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is to die be put to death; at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death."<br><br>When Paul was taken to Cesar, he argued:<br><br>Acts 25:11<br>"If then I am in the wrong, and have done anything that deserves death, I am not trying to escape dying, but if not one of their charges Castlemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16413257174535190126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-56717047356055732462009-05-16T23:24:00.000-07:002009-05-16T23:24:00.000-07:00Eric, I find no need to go into American or Geneva...Eric, I find no need to go into American or Genevan politics in order to call homosexuality a sin.<br><br>The dare that Steve posted did not even dare me to defend it from a Reformed position. <br><br>So I will look at your point on Acts 25:11 more deeply, but for now would like to maintain my own argument that homosexuality is a sin, without being a theonomist.<br><br>All I do is have to prove IBryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-44923022639461382592009-05-17T00:08:00.000-07:002009-05-17T00:08:00.000-07:00"Castleman,Everyone who is Reformed must be, ..."Castleman,<br>Everyone who is Reformed must be, to some extent, theonomic. I have benefited from knowing Greg Bahnsen, but have not taken over all of the tenets and principles of Theonomy, including being Post-Mil.<br>Being A-Mil (I like A.A. Hoekema's term: Realized Eschatology) does not have to mean that you are an inveterate pessimist when it comes to culture. Therefore, I would Castlemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16413257174535190126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-54253463134424157422009-05-17T00:17:00.000-07:002009-05-17T00:17:00.000-07:00Also, Why did God establish tithing? God establish...Also, <br><br>Why did God establish tithing? God established tithing because he placed Israel in a free market. The doctrine of tithing is an economic law of the OT. Let me ask you this. If we don't live in a free market, which was the reason why a tithe was needed, why should we be obligated to a tithe at all? <br><br>Paul demands to be paid in the bible. He says "Don't muzzle the Castlemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16413257174535190126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-29951696422297515082009-05-17T00:42:00.000-07:002009-05-17T00:42:00.000-07:00I just wrote a lot about this topic, but I just be...I just wrote a lot about this topic, but I just became annoyed when I found out that nobody is going to church.<br><br>So I deleted it.Bryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-75978169757005472722009-05-17T08:04:00.000-07:002009-05-17T08:04:00.000-07:00Well, I was looking forward to going to church tod...Well, I was looking forward to going to church today, but my plan to "catch up" on my work this week didn't come to fruition, and Sunday is the last day of the pay period. I'm stuck. What am I supposed to do? I can tell people I owe money to "just wait". Haha! I need my knee caps.Sermonwriterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01218224391894824520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-66000626868404158122009-05-17T08:47:00.000-07:002009-05-17T08:47:00.000-07:00Bryan said..."All I do is have to prove I hav...<b>Bryan said...</b><i>"All I do is have to prove I have a leg to stand on and I win."</i>Hahah! Are we there yet? So far I can't really tell. I think the quote from Gleason that Eric posted here about theonomy might be a fair description of my own understanding of 'theonomy', and could be a common ground that we all may be able to start from. The TERM "theonomy&Sermonwriterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01218224391894824520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-86946470490234205302009-05-17T10:21:00.000-07:002009-05-17T10:21:00.000-07:00Here is another quote from Ron Gleason, who is als...Here is another quote from Ron Gleason, who is also quoting Herman Bavinck:<br><br><b><i>We ended last time with a statement by Bavinck that is worthy of our time and attention. He wrote, “The heteronomy of law and the autonomy of man are reconciled only by…theonomy.” Bavinck made that statement as an ethical truth firmly ensconced in theological reflection. In other words, he spoke unashamedly Sermonwriterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01218224391894824520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-63821473919741719192009-05-18T00:18:00.000-07:002009-05-18T00:18:00.000-07:00I don't care to talk about this anymore.If you...<b>I don't care to talk about this anymore.</b>If you want to show me a successful theology which is evident in your lives, I may humor you.<br><br><br>I would love to know the decision making process that goes into missing worship every Sunday. Does the law of God cross your mind, or have you forgotten to apply it to yourselves.<br><br>Until you are able to make some type of reconciliation Bryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-76173756492698299182009-05-18T04:38:00.000-07:002009-05-18T04:38:00.000-07:00I think that you take this whole conversation over...I think that you take this whole conversation over the top when you start talking about our lives.<br><br>My question to you is, Why is it so important for you to get so bent out of shape about our church attendance. I for one, have stayed at Ontario URC while you and dad continue to speak ill of an ordained elder. While you jetted off to Oceanside URC, I continued to stand by Ontario, and I Castlemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16413257174535190126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-69164461340050505792009-05-18T12:48:00.000-07:002009-05-18T12:48:00.000-07:00Eric, I have to get personal. I take your real li...Eric,<br><br> I have to get personal. <br><br> I take your real life theology and put it here. Or else this internet dialogue is just a facade much like a Hollywood movie set. <br><br> Your true view of God's law is evident by your obedience to it.<br> <br> <br> You are lucky I don't publicly blast you on Facebook for all of your friends and family to see. I should though, because you Bryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-73810324765210288882009-05-18T13:16:00.000-07:002009-05-18T13:16:00.000-07:00You see what happens when you talk about the law. ...You see what happens when you talk about the law. It offends people, because it is like a mirror which casts a reflection. It shows us our ugliness.<br><br>I do not want to go around pointing out everyone's violations to the law or their cavities. <br><br>Steve it is my prayer that you are healed of your temporary trials. <br><br>Eric, I just want you to find joy in your worship.<br><br>I Bryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-76585550725860756742009-05-18T13:43:00.000-07:002009-05-18T13:43:00.000-07:00All of my facebook blogs are legal information. Th...All of my facebook blogs are legal information. The fact that you think that my personal life has anything to do with civil law is crazy.<br><br>Why don't you blast me on facebook? I think its because you have nothing to say. <br><br>You do not have a job. I do. I have been keeping it on the DL for almost 4 months now. Me and Dad are starting a golf club repair business, and that is why I Castlemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16413257174535190126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-54675668251283586712009-05-18T14:45:00.000-07:002009-05-18T14:45:00.000-07:00Both you guys...I think I've made it clear, th...Both you guys...<br><br>I think I've made it clear, that I have no guilt whatsoever in speaking my mind here on my blog, or, on Facebook, just because I'm a sinner. <br><br>We all have immediate demons to fight, does that mean we ignore all the other ones? Not me. That is a <b>cop out</b> to blame your failures in one area of your life and use that as an excuse to ignore the other areasSermonwriterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01218224391894824520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-43043533213218586522009-05-18T15:36:00.000-07:002009-05-18T15:36:00.000-07:00Bryan said..."Steve it is my prayer that you ...<b>Bryan said...</b><i>"Steve it is my prayer that you are healed of your temporary trials."</i><br><br>Thanks Bryan! I know it's been a long time coming, and I am already experiencing this healing as you say, and I am looking forward to a more permanent and confident "walk" from this healing. I have tried very hard not to give up on myself, and I want to thank you and Sermonwriterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01218224391894824520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-17681368521358872462009-05-18T20:54:00.000-07:002009-05-18T20:54:00.000-07:00Ok guys ! I hope everything works out. I will just...Ok guys ! I hope everything works out. <br><br>I will just pray for you guys.Bryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-23256168777725543622009-05-19T23:53:56.159-07:002009-05-19T23:53:56.159-07:00Hey well I picked up a book that has a lot of info...Hey well I picked up a book that has a lot of information on theonomy. I don't think my line of logic here is faulty. What I presumed about theonomy so far has turned out to be true. Some theonomist want to deport people who practice other religions. I see a lot of similarities to Islamic religious rule.<br><br><b>For the record Bahnsen believes that Sabbath breaking is a sin punishable by Bryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2049528175151742757.post-36675592418113434352009-05-20T00:17:12.034-07:002009-05-20T00:17:12.034-07:00Oh, and by the way I debate with you guys because ...Oh, and by the way I debate with you guys because I care about your spiritual well being.<br><br>For your sake and mine I am going to educate myself as to what these guys Bahnsen, Rushdooney, Van Til, Gary North believe.<br><br>So I am not going to post anymore for awhile until I have a really solid background.<br><br>However, from reading what I am reading it seems that you also may not fully Bryannoreply@blogger.com